The social programs of the 1960’s did terrible damage to the black nuclear family, and we are reaping the harvest. Yes, there was segregation and occasional lynchings, but they were, by and large, coping and gaining ground, though doing so in some cases required creating their own parallel institutions like the black colleges. The Confederate statues were put up when they were put up [not just after the war but largely during periods of Civil Rights tension in the 20th century], to send a message about white supremacy, and to sentimentalize people who had actively fought to preserve the system of slavery. Look at all of the southern black city and town mayors, police chiefs, DAs, other office holders, and governmental workers in recent decades. Every action is on a slippery slope to one or more catastrophic outcomes. No timeframe was discussed, and Kenner originally floated the idea of presenting the plan to the Confederate Congress. What is happening now is a manifestation of mob rule, and it needs to stop. Civic engagement initiatives can serve an essential purpose in bridging this divide between citizens. Oh screw that mealy-mouthed bullshit. His bequest built 30 schools in New Orleans most named for him and given numbers. 1.21.2021 11:49 AM, © 2020 Reason Foundation | Never happened. It looks like the Capitol Hill mob kept police away from a homicide scene. In a free society, private individuals must have the right to put up such statues and images as they wish—even ones that express awful viewpoints, such as support for the Confederacy. First, removing or even moving a Confederate statue in response to angry citizens sets up a zero-sum encounter, where it is clear that one group “wins” while the other “loses.” These situations often serve to harden beliefs on both sides and raise tension. And even then they shouldn’t be destroyed, just relocated. That is not even as bad as some of Lincoln’s statements regarding black people. The removal in recent years of several monuments depicting Confederate leaders and other controversial historical figures by both politicians and unsanctioned activists have generated debate over whether their removal is justified. (All of this applies to statues erected by the public. In instances such as those, politicians treat the minority in opposition as a potentially dangerous electoral swing vote. Throughout New England, “King” street got re-named to either “Washington Street” or “Congress Street” after the Revolution. “If the slaves of the South were mine,” Lee wrote to Bishop Joseph P.B. It was composed of 21 prominent whites and 21 prominent blacks. There were those that would entertain it, but Lincoln would not have it. Yours is obviously the preferred approach. They were part of an effort to claw back at least a partial victory and rehabilitate the racial hierarchy for which people like the traitor Lee fought. Here are some challenges I see about how community conversations could proceed that would make it harder for people to come together and manage their differences. Lee told her that they should give “the final abolition of human slavery…the aid of our prayers and all justifiable means in our power,” praying for “the mild and melting influence of Christianity” over “the storm and tempest of fiery controversy” driving America to disunion. Because, basically, they want to destroy all the monuments that aren’t to communists. Even in the 1860s and especially when the war ended, you can see many were deeply ashamed of slavery, even as racism persisted through Jim Crow, which then brought more shame. That’s why they’re not limiting their attacks to Confederate statues. But it will make for a poorer, less enlightened future. Can’t wait until some militia gets the idea they can rip down some communist or socialist monument in the public square. Lenin was a brutal mass murderer who founded a regime that killed tens of millions of people and inspired similarly oppressive dictatorships in numerous other nations around the world. In recent weeks, they have damaged or torn down such monuments as a statue of Ulysses S. Grant (the general who did more than any other military leader to defeat the Confederacy, and later sought to protect black rights as president) and the Boston Common memorial to the 54th Massachusetts, the African-American Civil War regiment made famous by the 1989 film Glory. But it doesn't follow that rioting and vandalism are the right way to do it. Otherwise Cuba would be a pretty great place. I had always seen Confederate memorials as dusty history of what the country was once like, and not at all compelling these days, but their removal as civic monuments may heal some old wounds. These monuments are a reminder of what our country had to go through to become whole again. Symbols matter. We fought a “war on poverty”, and poverty is having the last laugh, and the primary victims are blacks. I think the reality is that while these noble ideals have their role, war almost always comes down to power and money. Jefferson sneaks in on the Nickel because he expanded the country without firing a shot. Basis for claim: 1: any delay between scene and ER increases both morbidity & mortality. It still doesn’t make slavery right, it wasn’t. that the soldier who kills the most men in battle, even in a bad cause, is the greatest Christian, and entitled to the highest place in heaven.". How about with people who took up arm… And of course, some slave states did not secede. Or, is it? So name all the politicians that switched parties, jackhole. You’re a bit late to the party, popcorn or not. “Maybe the infamous statues can be relocated to somewhere ‘bad'”. .. was a staunch supporter of slavery who chose the Confederacy over the Union in large part for that very reason”. It appears that some people do not want statues of any whites associated with history, no matter their role, but in the same city, the mayor apposed renaming a facility that was named for a black slave owner and that facility is located where the black slave market was at! Also retroactively rehabilitating that reputation is often used to make some contemporary political point. The fact that the southern states were so fanatically devoted to protecting slavery that they preferred to betray their country and kill hundreds of thousands of Americans over even the remote risk that slavery might be weakened some day in the far distant future does not, in my view, ennoble their cause. They are doing quite well by any metric you care to examine, comparatively speaking. When the … We have not nearly run out of Confederate monuments to remove and treat with disdain. And this justifies doing it in the heat of the moment? Lee elsewhere called slavery a “national sin” for which he feared America would be punished. Perhaps he should not be honored, and other as well. What I have observed is that among well-meaning and good-hearted Southerners, many of them may favor taking down certain Confederate monuments, but never those of the kind described above. Lenin stopped the ‘Great War’, and was a mass life-saver. Today, it’s BLM, but tomorrow it’s blacks and women who are deeply angry over Jefferson’s taking advantage of a black slave woman. There is good reason to take down Confederate monuments. These are not “just” statues. It is interesting that the photo atop this post is of the Lee statue in Charlottesville. After all, there is no telling where such removals might lead!…  [T]aking down German monuments to Hitler and Goebbels might lead to the removal of monuments to Immanuel Kant, who expressed racist sentiments in some of his writings. The point of removing Confederate monuments is not just to to get rid of the statues themselves, but to develop a strong social consensus that recognizes the wrongness of the Confederacy's cause. Few realize that even Mahatma Gandhi, while he was in South Africa, routinely expressed “disdain” for black Africans, describing them as “savage,” “raw,” and living a life of “indolence and nakedness” in his early writings. Some of these monuments being torn down are monuments to the unknown soldiers that never returned and were buried in mass graves on the battlefield. Far from it. The Removal of the Confederate Statues On August 12, 2017, a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, VA turned into a violent and brought renewed attention to dozens of Confederate monuments from around the country. Why isn’t “rioters and looters murdering innocent people” included in the list? He betrayed his oath of office and his country to defend slavery: if he in fact had the moral insight to recognize how evil slavery was, that makes his actions all the worse. But it doesn't follow that rioting and vandalism are the right way to do it. Between blacks and the substantial minority of southern whites who wanted to stay in the Union, it is likely that secessionists did not enjoy majority support in any state. That’s why it’s so hard for us to realize that, say, not everything that Mother Theresa did was unequivocally wonderful. Do you have any idea how poor the prospects of a child being raised by one parent are, unless that parent is wealthy enough to afford all sorts of expensive compensations? The South is proud, but they changed. It’s funny how the ‘anti-racist’ Democrats didn’t see removing these statues or Confederate flags as much of a priority when they held local control over these places. And Ulysses S. Grant who was not only an abolitionist but led the Union Army to victory. Virginia Gov Ralph Northam on Thursday ordere… There are potential political rewards for letting majority opinion guide outcomes. So perhaps you are right, and the same applies to Lincoln. It sure worked out well, didn’t it?”, The majority of the partisans of Jim Crow switched parties and are now in the party of Lincoln. For me, it was the hammer and sickle emblems so many of them are carrying. You protect them because somebody else thinks YOUR statues are bad. A whole generation of blacks are essentially doomed to poverty at this point! By contrast, leading a war in defense of slavery ”. The School is nonpartisan and policy-neutral. We need to quickly find a civil way of arbitrating the divide between offense and history, without indulging a PC Reign of Terror. Scott Shackford As John Stuart Mill pointed out at the time, southern secession lacked majority support in any state, once you recognize that blacks count as people too, and were a part of the relevant population whose consent secessionists had an obligation to secure. Those who think otherwise should recall that allowing mobs to suppress unpopular minorities has rarely worked out well for racial and ethnic minorities, including African-Americans. Name them and their dates of secession. Never happened. Statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis, which was recently taken down in New Orleans. I do not see how it can be removed or gotten over. A respectful, productive discussion obviously is not a given (especially due to our present tendency to talk over each other rather than productively engage), but can be encouraged through plaques, more robust history curricula, and cooperation among faith leaders. 3. If you are having problems with commenting please let us know here by creating a ticket. “My own opinion is that, at this time, they [black Southerners] cannot vote intelligently, and that giving them the [vote] would lead to a great deal of demagogism, and lead to embarrassments in various ways.” – Traitor Lee, “It is true that the people of the South, in common with a large majority of the people of the North and West, are, for obvious reasons, inflexibly opposed to any system of laws that would place the political power of the country in the hands of the negro race.” – Traitor Lee, “The relations between the Negroes and the whites were friendly formerly, [you know, when I could abuse them at will, sell their children, spouse, or parents, and otherwise terrorize them,] and would remain so if legislation be not passed in favor of the blacks, in a way that will only do them harm.” – Traitor Lee. At least you’re honest about thinking the mob should be appeased when it’s your mob. “Robert E. Lee . I think it significant that images of dead presidents on coinage portrayed in the manner of deified Ceasars became the norm at about the same time our government was changed, in practice, from a Republic to an Administrative State. Back in August, John Stephens contributed a great post on this topic. Stop the removal of historical Confederate Monuments. The three men met with French Emperor Napoleon III, who agreed to recognize the Confederacy under these terms if the British would follow suit. Partisans who abandon constitutional principles because they prove inconvenient are in for a rude surprise when the other team wins. Lincoln’s cause was the same as Britain, empire, tax revenues, domination and control. Moreover, a negotiated solution could even include non-physical substitutes, such as increased funding for minority scholarships or a public commitment to make local government hiring more diverse. America concluded its civil war by dominating and subjugating the losers, but also honoring their bravery. There are no ‘good’ government statues, because they’re sponsored by the government. How about “Silent Sam”, who was removed from the UNC-Chapel Hill campus? The justification for removing the monuments is not their defense of slavery. I keep thinking of MLK2 — he WAS sexist & homophobic. That seems to be the kind of political process Somin has in mind for the monuments question. These monuments are their headstones and desecrating them is no different than desecrating graves. (Example: Georgia didn’t elect a Republican Governor until 2002. Finally, this month saw the Virginia legislature debate letting the state’s localities decide what to do with public Confederate symbols, while dueling bills promise to heighten Missouri’s dispute on tributes to former Confederate soldiers. They have played out, dried up, and want something new.” So in private, Stephens was saying that it was not primarily about slavery. Independence was paramount: “In 1864, Duncan F. Kenner, perhaps the largest slave holder in the South at the time and representative from Louisiana, approached Davis with a unique proposal. “lT]he Founders deserve commemoration because their complicity in slavery was outweighed by other, more positive achievements, such as establishing the Constitution. The Confederates led an unsuccessful revolution against the United States, whereas Mr. Lenin led a successful revolution against the Russian monarchy. Remove all government statues and monuments. Here’s one that works. was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution" and that protecting it was the "cornerstone" of the new Confederate government. I’m talking about social metrics like rising incomes, educational levels, rate of single motherhood. Ilya Somin is Professor of Law at George Mason University, and author of Free to Move: Foot Voting, Migration, and Political Freedom and Democracy and Political Ignorance: Why Smaller Government is Smarter. He argues that all have complicated histories, all did bad as well as good, and therefore there is no logical reason to remove statues of some but not others. So, now that all the statues are gone and all the white politicians and celebrities are trying to out-virtue signal each other with saccharine platitudes , does that mean blacks are going to stop committing violent crimes, get jobs, and be civilized? Zero. Revisionists? Ralph Northam (D) has pledged to take down a statute of Robert E. Lee “as soon as possible,” and the mayor of Richmond has introduced a resolution to remove additional statues. “I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.” In a correspondence with Lord Acton, the great English classical liberal, Lee said, “Although the South would have preferred any honorable compromise to the fratricidal war which has taken place, she now accepts in good faith its constitutional results, and receives without reserve the amendment which has already been made to the Constitution for the extinction of slavery.” According to Lee, emancipation was “an event that has been long sought, though in a different way, and by none has it been more earnestly desired than by citizens of Virginia.” The fact that the Confederacy’s champion was an enemy of slavery and proponent of emancipation should force everyone to question what they assume the Confederate flag symbolizes – slavery and hate or independence and honor? You seem to believe you’ve made some sort of point. […] it will be fun to see it transpire.”. Should he be erased from Mt. Even as the district struggles to vaccinate seniors, it will soon allow half the city to get in line. https://disrn.com/news/video-surfaces-of-black-lives-matter-founder-saying-were-trained-marxists, “Conspicuously, the mob aren’t tearing down statues of Stalin or Lenin.”. The South certainly had its beautiful minds and souls, then, and always will, but, now, 150 years later, though it has lost some of its regional character, it seems more universally welcoming and generous. Workers prepare to take down a Jefferson Davis statue in New Orleans early on Thursday. And at the same time, building up a lot more statues of Black, Latino, and other national figures who aren’t as stained by the Confederacy, slavery, racism, and prejudice. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and the rest were also traitors, so perhaps you are right, and the same applies to them. . Then Lenin overthrew the new government later that year in the October revolution. There is an agenda of divisiveness, and it won’t benefit any of us in the end. | Cool. You don't have to take my word for the centrality of slavery to the Confederate cause, or even the word of the overwhelming majority of Civil War historians. Where’s the respect for themselves and from others? Rushmore, along with slave-owner Washington, racist but emancipator Lincoln and white nationalist but suffrage supporting Roosevelt? Indeed, there is already evidence that Louisville; Atlanta; Denton, TX; and a few other local governments are doing this to some degree in relation to their Confederate monuments. Getting rid of monuments to Lenin and Stalin might lead people to take down monuments to Picasso, who was also a communist. lol. I never thought that these mobs were Communists because they weren’t tearing down statues of Communists. It seems to me at present insurmountable! And to follow up, why didn’t Lincoln’s emancipation proclamation free the slaves in Kentucky and Maryland? Then the Red Terror starts the next year. The slippery slope argument would suggest that as speed limits were raised, they’d raise into infinity. The common Confederate soldier was certainly never fighting for slavery in their mind. Get a grip. Including attempting to seize property of the United States. The North suffered economically when the Southern states , producers of cotton, left the Union. Israel’s been fighting Palestinians since 1948. Workers prepare to take down the statue of former Confederate general Robert E. Lee, which stands over 100 feet tall, in Lee Circle in New Orleans, Friday, May 19, 2017. The Onion looks at the pros and cons of removing historical statues. They are for breaking up. Ask yourself, “What makes me want to do that?”. There’s a huge statue of Lenin about five miles from the CHOP, in Fremont. It’s through this discussion, for instance, that a black resident might learn that nearly a quarter of Southern white men in their twenties died through conflict or disease as a result of the Civil War. Brett’s point is a valid one. He did not at all suggest that an organized opposition would prevail in the arena of ideas. There are no easy answers, but civilly and fairly addressing offending reminders of a hurtful past that has lingered too long may be a start. Robby Soave Had they not rebelled, the southern states could have held off these amendments in Congress, because they controlled enough Senators. I recognize there are close cases where it is hard to tell whether the good a historical figure did outweighs the evil by enough to justify honoring them with a monument. I look forward to someone’s arguments the taking down monuments to the Confederacy implies that we should tear down the statue of Liberty Enlightening the World from New York harbor, since it came from the French after the revolution. The Russian monarchy had already been toppled by about March 1917. Lee kept these slaves in bondage for five years after inheriting them, broke up their families, treated them so cruelly he nearly incited a revolt, and organized the torture of some who escaped and were recaptured. 1.21.2021 5:43 PM, Matt Welch Numerous American cities proudly exhibit Gandhi statues. Is there some technical reason I am unaware of that requires that we have faces on our money? Virtually everyone is aware that the US government was willing to make virtually any accommodation to avoid war. Most of us have to obey but not others, it would appear. Such as Lincoln, since he started a war that killed more Americans than any other before or since, and he did so for empire and money and power. When his wife inherited some slaves through her father-in-law, Lee freed them in accordance with his wishes, and stayed in touch with many of them. When the monuments in question are privately owned, the vandals are violating the property rights and freedom of speech of the owners. If the British had won the war then we would be celebrating THOSE emancipation proclamations. The people we have to worry about are the people who are pulling their strings. Check your dates again. Historians are of two minds about which of these two events is “when the war started” and I stated the less popularly known event. I doubt it, but they will help damage everyone’s sense of security and have some people screaming for martial law at some point, and which very well may be the point… and highly unfortunate for us all, black, white, or any color. But that just end should be pursued by just means. He was formerly the managing editor of an online news/analysis publication and a product manager for an online budget simulator at a civic engagement consultancy. Unfortunately morons on the right[1] make it impossible in practice by mistaking decency for “erasing history” or other nonsense. I’m not reading Fort Sumter out of history by any stretch. 5. He had no idea. How racist is that! 1.21.2021 2:00 PM, Jacob Sullum Many are from the late 19th and early 20th century. Are others in opposition to our United States different? There are ones in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, New York City, Los Angeles, and — yes — Seattle, Washington. This perception is mostly only due to the fact that the Confederacy lost. Maybe even sold. Well, I suppose being on the winning side of a war definitely improves one’s historical reputation, whether in 1783 or 1865. Actually, many of the states made no mention whatsoever of slavery in their official statements. Few people are also aware of the fact that Lincoln offered three times to protect slavery if the seceding states would remain in or rejoin the Union, and the states rejected this each time in favor of independence. Your United States? Anyway, good riddance to some of the memorials, but just not in the manner they were toppled or destroyed, because this is not a revolution or a psyop. Of course, when the statues went up, all citizens did not having equal voting power, much less equal power in their local government. In a private letter to J. Henly Smith on December 31, 1860 Alexander Stephens disclosed that the real reason the South seceded was that the southern leaders didn’t want any redress of grievances but were for breaking up because they were “tired of the gov[ernme]nt. I think that, if a monument has been in place for decades, if should not be torn down in a moment of passion, by a transitory majority responding to literal mobs. It makes as more sense than Fort Bragg in North Carolina. “So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished,” Lee told Pastor John Leyburn. Don’t know where they might have learned that tactic from, but it will be fun to see it transpire. UPDATE: I should mention this excellent op ed on the same issue, by conservative Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby, who reaches similar conclusions, but based on somewhat different reasoning. People make slippery slope arguments because the real world actually works that way, and deriding slippery slope arguments even as we’re sliding down one and picking up speed is just delusional. If you don’t like it, organize and vote those people out. Such as some sort of Hell Zone, of place of disrepute? Sarcastr0….don’t be stupid, and you’re not. When the statues are publicly owned, removing them by wanton destruction still usurps decision-making authority from the public. [R]emoving Confederate monuments does not require any "whitewashing" of history. I argue that when it comes to historical structures that are the root of community tension, the answer should almost never be to physically remove them. Wilmer, “I would surrender them all without a struggle to avert this terrible war.” Lee himself was never willingly involved in the slave economy. We should stop honoring such people. Post-reconstruction, Jim Crow, segregation, etc., the South has continued to fight a guerrilla war (though the bullets have generally not been aimed at U.S. troops) ever since. Murdering people under color of law is worse than assaulting protestors under color of law is worse than destroying or stealing the private property of innocent third parties during protests is worse than vandalizing public property that honors people who should be honored is worse than vandalizing public property honoring those who should not be honored. Matthew Evans started this petition to President Donald J. Trump and 6 others. Even when vandals target monuments whose removal is justified, conducting the removal in this way is likely to be counterproductive. These ought to be repealed, and I doubt not if the whole South had united in asking their repeal with firmness and decision and with an honest intent to be satisfied with it when they got it that success would have crowned their efforts. You seem to be assuming that the same people are doing both of these things. Nor can the Confederates be defended on the ground that they were fighting for the "self-determination" of the people of the southern states—at least not if blacks count as part of the relevant people: The Confederacy cannot even be justified on the theory that the majority of the people in any state or region have a right to secede for any reason they want. https://bit.ly/2V4FRMI. M L — You are reading Ft. Sumter right out of the history of the Civil War? To me, that’s the ultimate issue with tearing down historical symbols. Can you point to a single historical example in the last millenium or so where mob rule did lead to good conclusion? It’s that they waged war against the United states. Can we please stop with slippery slope arguments? As John mentioned, one substitute for doing away with a controversial monument is building another to a more inclusive person or idea in an equally public location. al. I used to say the same thing, but now I think I gave him far too much credit. 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